DUST Search - AR vs CR

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

For background, I think it is necessary that everyone understands what is meant by type, & CCP's plan for the racial "assault rifles" before moving forward. This is a quote from CCP Remnant on what rifle types and variants.

"The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault (Gallente), Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on."

It is also important to know the ranges of weapons of different damage profiles. Can be found here, from 1.7 weapon dev blog.

Assault type
AR (hybrid-plasma damage profile: short range)
Assault SCR (laser damage profile: medium to long range)
Assault RR (hybrid-railgun damage profile: long range)
Assault CR (projectile damage profile: short-medium range)

Tactical type
SCR (laser: medium to long range)
Tactical AR (hybrid-plasma: short range)
*Future tactical variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range)
*Future tactical variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range)

Burst type
CR (projectile: short-medium range)
Burst AR (hybrid-plasma: short range)
*Future burst variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range)
*Future burst variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range)

Breach type
RR (hybrid-railgun: long range)
Breach AR (hybrid-plasma: short range)
*Future breach variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range)
*Future breach variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range)

[Comparison]
So we have identified the types, & their comparative ranges (short to long, everything in between) within the type. Now lets compare the rifles by type using 1.8 stats. All stats prototype.

Assault
AR: 412.5 DPS, shortest range (45 optimal/78 effective)
aCR: 420, short-medium range (56/84)
aSCR: 420.59, medium-long range (56/90)
aRR: 400, longest range (75/102)

Tactical
tAR: 462 DPS (acheivable without modded controller), 69.3 damage per shot, restrictive ROF (you can tap R1 faster than it can shoot). Shortest range range (57/84)
SCR: 841.17 DPS (not acheivable without modded controller), 71.5 damage per shot, non-restricive ROF. Medium-long range (75/96)

Burst
buAR: 474.38 DPS, shortest range (50/78)
CR: 594 DPS, short-medium range (67/84)

Breach
brAR: 330, shortest range (46/78)
RR: 397.69, longest range (75/102)

[Conclusion]

The assault SCR is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range. Perhaps if the aSCR had overheat play a bigger factor, it would be balanced.

The assault CR is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range.

The assault RR does have less damage per second in exchange for range, but it gets 30 meters more optimal to deal full damage in exchange for only 12.5 less damage per second. The aRR gets the much better end of the deal. The spool-up time may be enough to balance things, but not clear at this point.

The tactical AR sucks compared to the SCR. SCR has more damage per shot, more rate of fire, way more range, the charge shot ability, better hipfire accuracy; unless you're really really bad at managing overheat, there is no reason to use the tac AR over the SCR.

The burst AR sucks compare to the CR. CR has more massively more DPS, & more range.

The breach AR sucks compared to the RR. Less range, less DPS, less magazine size, there's just no reason to ever use the breach AR.

While not of the same type, the AR & RR are comparable because they are both automatic. The AR has about 14 points more damage per second, but the RR gets 30 meters more optimal range to do full damage in. While it is a tradeoff, it seems far from equitable; the RR gets the better end of that deal. The spool-up time may be enough to balance things, but not clear at this point.

All weapons of the AR family pretty much suck.

[Solutions]
Rifles need to be balanced against others of the same type: the tac AR balanced against the SCR, or assault CR against the AR, etc.

The main thing is the DPS vs range is not something CCP seems to actively think of as a tradeoff for weapons. Generally ( Attention

meaning not always, yes there are other factors Attention

) If a weapon has more DPS than another of the same type, it should have less range; likewise, if a weapon has less ...

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10373	Posted - 2014.04.10 00:20:00 - [1] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: CR is handicapped by button mashing, physically throwing off your aim (unless you're a turbo cheater). AR has full auto. Actually not hard at all to get use to tapping R1 in a good rhythm. As for the automatic thing, when the AR is compared with the automatic assault variant of the comabat rifle (aCR), the aCR has more range, more damage per second, and the superior damage profile that gives a net 5% damage advantage; projectile weapons do +10% against armor, but only -5% against shields, the gains vs loss is not equivalent, unlike all other weapon damage profiles. Thread on damage profiles. Thread on rifle balance KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: For background, I think it is necessary that everyone understands what is meant by *type, & CCP's plan for the racial "assault rifles" before moving forward. This is a quote from CCP Remnant on what rifle types and variants. "The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault (Gallente), Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on." It is also important to know the ranges of weapons of different damage profiles. Can be found here, from 1.7 weapon dev blog. Assault type* AR (hybrid-plasma damage profile: short range) Assault SCR (laser damage profile: medium to long range) Assault RR (hybrid-railgun damage profile: long range) Assault CR (projectile damage profile: short-medium range) Tactical type SCR (laser: medium to long range) Tactical AR (hybrid-plasma: short range) Future tactical variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range) Future tactical variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range) Burst type CR (projectile: short-medium range) Burst AR (hybrid-plasma: short range) Future burst variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range) Future burst variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range) Breach type RR (hybrid-railgun: long range) Breach AR (hybrid-plasma: short range) Future breach variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range) Future breach variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range) [Comparison] So we have identified the types, & their comparative ranges (short to long, everything in between) within the type. Now lets compare the rifles by type using 1.8 stats. All stats prototype. Assault AR: 412.5 DPS, shortest range (45 optimal/78 effective) aCR: 420, short-medium range (56/84) aSCR: 420.59, medium-long range (56/90) aRR: 400, longest range (75/102) Tactical tAR: 462 DPS (acheivable without modded controller), 69.3 damage per shot, restrictive ROF (you can tap R1 faster than it can shoot). Shortest range range (57/84) SCR: 841.17 DPS (not acheivable without modded controller), 71.5 damage per shot, non-restricive ROF. Medium-long range (75/96) Burst buAR: 474.38 DPS, shortest range (50/78) CR: 594 DPS, short-medium range (67/84) Breach brAR: 330, shortest range (46/78) RR: 397.69, longest range (75/102) [Conclusion] The assault SCR is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range. Perhaps if the aSCR had overheat play a bigger factor, it would be balanced. The assault CR is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range. The assault RR does have less damage per second in exchange for range, but it gets 30 meters more optimal to deal full damage in exchange for only 12.5 less damage per second. The aRR gets the much better end of the deal. The spool-up time may be enough to balance things, but not clear at this point. The tactical AR sucks compared to the SCR. SCR has more damage per shot, more rate of fire, way more range, the charge shot ability, better hipfire accuracy; unless you're really really bad at managing overheat, there is no reason to use the tac AR over the SCR. The burst AR sucks compare to the CR. CR has more massively more DPS, & more range. The breach AR sucks compared to the RR. Less range, less DPS, less magazine size, there's just no reason to ever use the breach AR. While not of the same type, the AR & RR are comparable because they are both automatic. The AR has about 14 points more damage per second, but the RR gets 30 meters more optimal range to do full damage in. While it is a tradeoff, it seems far from equitable; the RR gets the better end of that deal. The spool-up time may be enough to balance things, but not clear at this point. All weapons of the AR family pretty much suck. [Solutions] Rifles need to be balanced against others of the same type: the tac AR balanced against the SCR, or assault CR against the AR, etc. The main thing is the DPS vs range is not something CCP seems to actively think of as a tradeoff for weapons. Generally (meaning not always, yes there are other factors) If a weapon has more DPS than another of the same type, it should have less range; likewise, if a weapon has less ... Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+